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Power modifications
Topic Started: Sep 22 2016, 07:35 AM (829 Views)
trance
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Still really enjoy driving the van around but it really frustrates me how slow she is on hills.

It got to the point last year where i started looking at ways to improve this lack in performance that the camper so greatly needs!

I managed to get hold of an intercooler from the .12 engine from a member on these forum, I have also fitted a new turbo from the . 12 , and as of yet have not really had the funds or the time to go any further.

My plan was to invest in a exhaust temp gauge and a boost gauge and start 'playing' around with the settings on the turbo and fuel pump.

Well, i have finally got around to fitting my boost gauge and nearly finished installing my exhaust temp gauge, I have also ordered a new water temp gauge which i think will be a handy edition. Fitting the exhaust temp gauge will involve a wee bit more work than the other gauges. I will need to remove the heater/fan mattrix to get access to the exhaust maniifold which needs drilled and tapped for the sensor to be fitted.

I am hoping to fit the exhaust gauge sensor this week at some point.
The boost gauge is up and running and i am seeing 0.8 bar. I have tee'd off the boost pipe from the inlet maniifold to the fuel pump.

I have read through the iveco manuals and it seems boost should be minium 0.8 bar and around 0.92/4 max (factory standard).
I am looking for an increase in power but i am aware that i don't want to overdo it as this will affect reliabilty etc....

I was thinking adjusting to 1.0 bar would be a good starting point or even a finishing point!
Does anyone know what kind of boost just gets silly or is even dangerous?
Better still, can these turbos be adjusted and where is best to adjust them?


My thinking is adjust boost pressure and then adjust the fuel pump
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johnr
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i suppose it depends what youm have and what you want. if you have the (iirc)100bhp version and you have the turbo and intercooler off a 118bhp motor then i suppose you should see what else you need to bring your van to the stock power of the later motor. i dont believe that the intercooler and turbo alone will do it, surely you need more fuel in with all that extra and cooler air. so either a different pump or pump setting or different injectors. cos as far as i can see, with the intercooler and bigger turbo, you will be getting plenty of air but no additional fuel. before tuning the motor any more than that, i think you need to sort the fuelling.
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trance
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Hi john,

Without a shadow of a doubt i do need to adjust the fueling.
I currently have the fuel set up of the 100 bhp model.
I have already fitted an intercooler and a new turbo to the 120 bhp set up.


What i want to do is not just aim for the 120 bhp of the factory model but set it up to run better for me. That might mean going past 120 bhp, but more so for torque, as hills are where it really struggles.

I am aware there will be limits here as there is only so much power you can extract from this engine before relability etc is seriously affected.

It seems like a good solid engine there must be more torque in there somewhere without too much of a sacrifice.


My thinking was adjust boost up to 1.0 bar. It seems to sit at 0.8 bar and peaks there.
I have have had it up at 0.95 bar but only really when shes on level ground or down hill.

It would be nice to get it up to 1.0 bar all the time when your foots flat on the floor on hills, where its needed.

Basically then adjust fuel pump until it slightly smokes and back off it a bit.....

Whats the best way to adjust the boost?

Cheers
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johnr
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id be wary of messing with the boost to higher than the factory 120 hp motor needs, lets face it, youre planning to boost your engine to 20% more than stock, if you get the fuelling right to make the full 120bhp of the higher output motor and then boost the air supply again, you will need to subsequently up the fuelling again to try and match your new air supply. id stick to the 20% boost you plan first before changing anything else.
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trance
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Thanks john,

Yes the 120 hp is a good starting place.
However, do you know if its possible to adjust when the boost comes in?
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Bazil-S
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Hi,

These engines can not pass more than 120 hp, only by adjustments. Even to reach 120 hp it requires replacing, or add several components such as turbo, intercooler, injection pumps, injectors nozzles, all this with the necessary adjustments. Also the nozzles of the injectors must be new.
It is not smart to play with a turbo compressor discharge valve (waste gate). The adjustment of the pushing rod is made with a dial gauge and an air pressure pump. This is not a diy job.
Daily 8140.43 by 116hp have maximum stroke at 0.98 bar but this is on test bench because the waste gate will start to open at 0.9 bar which is maximum boost pressure that you can achieve. This engine also have a different pump and nozzles.
What have you done so far: You have replace the turbo ( with a bigger one) and added an intercooler. A larger turbo has more resistance to movement due to the rotating mass of the turbine and impeller, so they are less responsive. Also you added an intercooler which create a longer run. All this create so called "turbo lag".
Perhaps a better combination would have been a smaller turbo, along with intercooler.
At climbing the hills, you need the boost on low to medium RPM, in fifth gear, so your turbo must to be agile.
Another method would be the adjusting of LDA, but we talked about this on a past thread, also, about the replacing of injectors nozzles and about the adjusting of the injection pump.

P.S.
The tuning of these engines was very popular in the early 2000s, but since on most engines gathered many miles, it is not too smart to grant advice about tuning.
Edited by Bazil-S, Sep 26 2016, 08:08 PM.
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johnr
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all im thinking is that if you have added a bigger turbo and an intercooler but not done anything to the fuelling, then youve probably reduced the power output that you had to begin with, not increased it. id be surprised if it was still producing the power it started off with if the fuelling isnt uprated....
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trance
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Thanks for your responses bazil & john,

Bazil,

I understand a smaller turbo would spool quicker.
The (slightly) bigger turbo that has now been fitted is like you say pushing through a longer run i.e the intercooler + pipework. The differences in size of turbine must be quite small, and although the new turbo is slightly bigger the density of the air (cooler/intercooler) will cause a bigger/stronger explosion. Would this not create more torque rather than a small turbo pushing in hot air but with a faster spool up?

I would have thought unless you move into hybrid turbos your arent going to see much increase in spool up between the iveco turbos, or not enough to negate the positive effects of dense cold air?

I am not sure, could you get a hybrid that has a smaller turbine but produces the same if not more boost, I would imagine you probably can? Although price might be an issue.....

As regards to the fuel pump i would have thought there was plenty scope for adjustment on that without renewal?

The injectors i didn't realise were different on the 12. model engine. It seems like you have to alter quite a few components even to squeeze 16 hp!

Bazil, you left a tuning chestnut there and you never let us in on all this tuning they did in the naughties......please tell.....!

I understand you do sacrifice reliabilty etc when you extract more power, but i believe these buses/trucks are severly underpowered, the engines seem sturdy enough to take more! I want my motorhome to last for years to come but manufacturers always leave room for more power, safely!

As a side note bazil do you know of anyone that has successfully transfered a modern Ecu engine into the older gen models?

I know you would need to transfer wiring loom,instrument cluster etc, but can it really be done or is it too big a job?

Thanks for your responses bazil & john,

Bazil,

I understand a smaller turbo would spool quicker.
The (slightly) bigger turbo that has now been fitted is like you say pushing through a longer run i.e the intercooler + pipework. The differences in size of turbine must be quite small, and although the new turbo is slightly bigger the density of the air (cooler/intercooler) will cause a bigger/stronger explosion. Would this not create more torque rather than a small turbo pushing in hot air but with a faster spool up?

I would have thought unless you move into hybrid turbos your arent going to see much increase in spool up between the iveco turbos, or not enough to negate the positive effects of dense cold air?

I am not sure, could you get a hybrid that has a smaller turbine but produces the same if not more boost, I would imagine you probably can? Although price might be an issue.....

As regards to the fuel pump i would have thought there was plenty scope for adjustment on that without renewal?

The injectors i didn't realise were different on the 12. model engine. It seems like you have to alter quite a few components even to squeeze 16 hp!

Bazil, you left a tuning chestnut there and you never let us in on all this tuning they did in the naughties......please tell.....!

I understand you do sacrifice reliabilty etc when you extract more power, but i believe these buses/trucks are severly underpowered, the engines seem sturdy enough to take more! I want my motorhome to last for years to come but manufacturers always leave room for more power, safely!

As a side note bazil do you know of anyone that has successfully transfered a modern Ecu engine into the older gen models?

I know you would need to transfer wiring loom,instrument cluster etc, but can it really be done or is it too big a job?
Edited by trance, Sep 30 2016, 08:14 AM.
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