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| Speedo not working; TDaily 2.8 W2000 plate 1998 body speedo fault | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Mar 26 2012, 12:21 PM (51,749 Views) | |
| Bazil-S | Apr 1 2012, 11:31 AM Post #31 |
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Hi, I stopped working on Daily second generation for some years, so my previous information may be inaccurate, but the system basically works like this: there are three devices: sensor, adapter, and speedometer / odometer, or tahograph. The sensor has four pins: 1 and 2 are for supply and 3 and 4 for signal. Signal is rectangular and has a positive phase (pin 3), and a negative phase (pin 4). The speedometer use only positive phase, which is transmitted on pin 3 corresponding to the wire 5517. Negative-phase signal is transmitted on pin 4 corresponding to the wire 5516 and is only used on tachographs. The adapter is designed to ensure the voltage for sensor, and adjust and amplify the signal. Previous sensor model operate at a voltage between 6V and 15V max (and signal between -2V, max 13V) , so the adapter will provide a constant voltage of 8V for sensor. New sensor model is operating at a voltage between 6V and 36V, so it does not need a voltage regulator and can be powered directly from the vehicle electrical system (in our case, direct from speedometer). Also the adapter will split the speed signal to the auxiliary devices. Here to the adapter occurs the confusion because the signal wire 5517 turns into 5513, the positive wire sensor is 5514, not 7772 or 8879, also appears the wire 5511 which is also positive for the sensor. Earth for sensor is 0058 not 0000, or 0066. Also, in adapter has entered water, which probably made a short circuit between wires and is likely to be sent 12V, or more to the signal wire coming from the sensor. This can damage the sensor. The speedometer has two connectors, connector A white colour that is used to supply the speedometer. The pins configuration are: 1 - Positive from battery (via fuse) for clock, red with the code 7772. 2 - Positive for instruments light, grey with the code 4444. 3 - Positive from ignition, green with the code 8879. 4 - free. 5 - earthing isolated directly from the battery terminal, used for clock, brown with code 0066 (in some models of Daily this wire is yellow and has the code 3336). 6 - earthing for the speedometer, brown with code 0000. Yellow - B connector used for sensor: pin 1 - positive for sensor orange - 5514 code , pin 2 - Sensor earth, brown - 0058 code, pin 3 - positive phase signal from the sensor, orange 5517 (5513) code. In your case, pin no 1 and 2 are not used, because the sensor supply comes from the adapter. What can you do: check the voltage supply to sensor, on the wires 5514 and 0058, both to the adapter connector and connector from the sensor. Disconnect wire 5517 from the adapter and connects it with 5513 wire, and see what happens (the signal from the sensor will be directly in the speedometer). Check the internal resistance of the sensor between the supply pins must be 1.5K ohms. Measuring the frequency is inaccurate, because the multimeter measures usually a sine wave, with both phases, and has a very high sensitivity and can measure spurious signals, such as engine speed. All three components, sensor, speedometer and adapter, contain electronic parts which can be damaged to a short circuit caused by water, so it is hard to find a flaw. |
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| stroppygit | Apr 1 2012, 11:43 AM Post #32 |
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Thanks. I did mention that I had 8v supply at the sensor in my first post. The only thing that Bazil-S or Hannibal have suggested that I have not checked is the resistance within the sensor. For completeness sake I will do this later. As to the frequency measurements, I appreciate that they may not accurately reflect a square wave, however I think it is not a spurious signal since it is only present when the drive train is running (clutch pedal up), is proportional to road speed and is also in ranges that correspond to being in different gears. in 2nd the frequency ranges are lower than 3rd, which is lower than 4th and so on. Whichever gear is selected, depress the clutch and presto - frequency drops to zero. Edited by stroppygit, Apr 1 2012, 11:45 AM.
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| Bazil-S | Apr 1 2012, 11:52 AM Post #33 |
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Try to connect the wire 5517 directly to the wire 5513, thus the signal no longer pass trough the adapter. |
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| Bazil-S | Apr 1 2012, 11:59 AM Post #34 |
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I agree with you, the measurement of the frequency is a way in case you do not have another device, I was referring to the post where you mentioned the engine rpm. |
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| stroppygit | Apr 1 2012, 03:52 PM Post #35 |
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OMG! Bazil-S you are a genius! 5517 connected direct to pin 3 of yellow B (where 5513 goes) and the tachometer comes to life! Question is, does that adaptor modify the signal in anyway that affects the speed measurement? Or put more simply, can I make a permanent bypass connection and have the correct road speed shown? Tacho is showing approx 30mph at 1000 rpm in fifth gear, this sounds about right to me from memory. Edited by stroppygit, Apr 1 2012, 04:02 PM.
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| Bazil-S | Apr 1 2012, 05:01 PM Post #36 |
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That adapter can have a pulse divider of 4, which can be activated or not, is also signal amplifier. If the speedometer indicates, without adapter, means that the pulse is strong enough, if indicate good means that divider is not activated. Should check with a vehicle driven in parallel (posible a friend). |
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| stroppygit | Apr 1 2012, 05:05 PM Post #37 |
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Oh dear. I've just tested it again 5517 connected direct to pin 3 where 5513 should go. Now it is reading ridiculously high mph for given revs. |
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| Bazil-S | Apr 1 2012, 05:34 PM Post #38 |
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It seems you have to buy an adapter. What is better than you know what is broken. Ohh ... try and make some pictures of parts from adapter, may we manage to fix it. |
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| stroppygit | Apr 1 2012, 06:31 PM Post #39 |
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Funnily enough, I've been thinking of repairing the adaptor too (£200 nearly to buy). My feeling is that the dip switch is the most likely component to be trashed by water as there is no way that it can be waterproof, all the other components on the board stand a very good chance of surviving a bath, as anyone who's ever put a Nokia through a full wash cycle in a washing machine, or spilled an entire pint of lager into a bbc micro computer will have found. Yes, I have done both these things and both items after a thorough rinsing and drying worked perfectly well afterwards. One other thing about the adaptor - very high price for a gadget with fairly standard components, yet I've found a commercial supplier in china that charges between US$1 and $10 per item depending on quantity! My camera couldn't hack it The switch appears to be functioning fine. Edited by stroppygit, Apr 1 2012, 07:42 PM.
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| stroppygit | Apr 2 2012, 05:10 PM Post #40 |
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There's one component in a 16 pin DIL package which I can't identify, it says ITALAMEC 722 on it followed by some more codes. I've been unable to find this part on the internet. I mention this as it is one of the components that was in the pool of water. |
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| hannibal | Apr 2 2012, 08:47 PM Post #41 |
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If it helps My speedo reads 30mph at 1500 rpm 60mph at 3000 rpm. I dont know what ratio my diff is or even if they are all the samr but mine is a 96 35-10 truck |
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| Bazil-S | Apr 2 2012, 09:31 PM Post #42 |
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Hi, It is an internal code of ITALAMEC. That chip can be a digital counter / divider, such as CD4022, or something more sophisticated. Basically the sensor signal must be divided by 4. This type of speedometer is part of the family of tachographs 1318 type. Search documentation in relation to this. |
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| stroppygit | Apr 7 2012, 05:46 PM Post #43 |
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hi folks. Sorry for delayed response. Tour has started. On the edge of the board, near the chip are two resistors and two diodes. One resistor had corroded connection both diodes were cracked. These were the parts most immersed in water. Replaced all four. Speedo now working saving 200 quid! Thanks for your involvement and help. |
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| mark hadley | Feb 1 2013, 09:42 PM Post #44 |
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My speedo under reads by 13%. I have 255/100 tyres on so that might be expected. But I have the adapter with all its DIL switches and all it can do is reduce the speed further. I have the instructions for the adapter and the DIP switches work as expected, but surely there is a way to increase the reading? is there any adjustment at the sender? It seems to have a graduated collar and four pins. thanks |
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| Bazil-S | Feb 2 2013, 10:23 AM Post #45 |
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Hi, You can adjust the DIP switches to indicate the correct speed, there is a formula for 'K' factor and adjustment tables. These tables are customized to the type of tachograph or speedometer. Somewhere on the forum I posted some tables, I think on a topic related to the gear ratio. The best thing would be to go to a workshop that spanned tachographs, they have special tools. |
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