Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
cheapivecoparts.co.uk

These forums are free and rely upon the goodwill of members to help and assist others. Any donations will be gratefully received.

You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use.

Join our community!

If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
Head Gasket 3.0
Topic Started: Mar 14 2013, 11:13 PM (14,953 Views)
cieranc
No Avatar
Member
[ *  * ]
Looks like the head gasket is failing on my 65c18. Bubbles coming up through header tank, over pressurising the coolant and spitting it out the cap.

I bypassed the EGR cooler and the turbo, just to rule them out, still does it.
Did a CO2 test and it's deffo exhaust fumes.

So before I rip it apart, has anyone here had a head off a 3.0 engine ?

Edited by cieranc, Mar 15 2013, 12:05 AM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
ivecojoe
No Avatar
Member
[ *  * ]
Before you rip it apart chuck in a bottle of k seal, really really rate it for the sake of about £8 its worth a try fixed one of my tractors, put it in when engine is warm then drive it you should notice bubbles lessening within about 20miles then dissapearing,I am now going to put it in everything I buy before there is a problem, it only reacts when a leak starts and actually fills the gap and goes hard only at that spot, like I say tractor was totally kaput gasket,poured in thought..ye that wont work..topped up water once and never since....it worked for me!its worth a try at that monies. Paul
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
cieranc
No Avatar
Member
[ *  * ]
Ha ha, forgot to say, already put some K seal through it, but it didn't cure the fault :$

I really rate K seal too, we use it regularly on customers vehicles (breakdown assistance) and usually with good results.

When this problem first started on mine, I was 100 miles away when the low coolant light came on. Couldn't see a leak so topped the water up and cracked on, 20 miles later the coolant light on again. This time I could see it was coming out the header tank overflow. Chucked a bottle of K seal in, topped the water up tried again. Didn't cure it, so just kept filling up to get home.

It's never over-heated and the water wasn't boiling up, the water is clean and so is under the oil filler cap. Just pressurising the system. Tried a new cap today just in case the cap's too weak, no difference.

Thinking about it, if there's a hairline crack in the head, between a cylinder and the water jacket, a piston could make enough pressure to push gas into the water jacket on a compression or power stroke, but the pressure from the coolant system might not be high enough to push water into the cylinder on an induction stroke. Which would also explain why the water is clean and there's no steam from the exhaust. If that's the case, K seal won't work, because the Kseal is in the coolant and being pushed away from the crack, not being drawn into it.

The other thing that's bugging me is, I've got a picture on my phone of our 65c17 (with 3.0 engine) with the head off it and I can't for the life of me remember taking the head off, or why it was taken off :'(
Edited by cieranc, Mar 15 2013, 12:08 AM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
ivecojoe
No Avatar
Member
[ *  * ]
That all makes sence, can you (afford) to get another head to fully skim/refurb before you pull it apart, the reason I say this is if it is cracked head you will need to anyway and the down time for the truck to then get it sorted is well over the top cost effectively pro rata, if you only need a gasket all well and good as long as the replacement head will be usefull to keep on the shelf for your other trucks.....it just depends how may days you can have it off the road and/or if you know of a reliable source to get a refurbed head of the shelf.... its six of one and half a dozen of the other.
let us know how you get on and hope its just a gasket.regards Paul
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
cieranc
No Avatar
Member
[ *  * ]
OK, clashed on with this last week, here's how it goes:
Drain the coolant down, remove front grill and front panel. Whip the rad frame out, complete with intercooler. Whip off engine cover, remove intake manifold, EGR cooler if fitted, undo exhaust at the 2 bolts from downpipe. Undo water and oil pipes from turbo and remove exhaust manifold with turbo attached. The workshop manual says to unbolt turbo from manifold, but that means leaving the turbo hanging off it's oil and water pipes, which I wasn't too keen on doing. Unplug the front engine wiring loom from the engine top end (if you take alternator wire off you can pull the loom completely out of the way). The back wiring loom over the top of the engine and the 2 vac pipes, tywrap them up to the wiper linkage to get them out the way. Whip the injectors out, whip the heater/glow plugs out.
Remove fan from the fan hub and the fan belt. Then you're about here, time for a brew:
Posted Image

Posted Image

Now to time up. The crank nut is done up to 350nm, and takes a good bit of breaking off. Best bet is to crack the nut off now (and refit it to turn the engine later). There's different ways of braking the 36mm bolt off, I use a windy gun through the front bumper:
Posted Image


With the bolt undone, remove the crank pulley and put the bolt back in. Remove the front cover from the bottom end, To remove this, unbolt the dipstick tube and pull it out, it's just on an oring. Undo the 3 100 bolts from the round cover on the front cover. Behind this round cover is the vac pump filter, remove the circlip from this shaft and slip the filter out. Unbolt the front cover and ease it off the shaft, taking care not to damage the seal. Remove the black cam wheel cover on the top front of the head (already removed in the pics above).
In the bottom end there's a hole to put a timing pin (bit of M8 threaded bar with the threads ground off one end). Rotate the engine until the timing pin drops into the crank:
Posted Image

With the crank locked, lets have a look at the cams. On the top of the cam carrier is 2 allen head plugs, these are the holes to lock the cams. Remove the plugs and you should see two indents in the cams, where the cam locking pins fit (2x M10 bolts):
Posted Image

If the timing is right, the two locking pins should drop straight through the holes and into the cams.
It doesn't do any harm to mark the cams anyway:
Posted Image

Right, with the bottom end locked, and the cams locked, time to whip the timing chain off. In the side of the head, pointing slightly upwards, is the cam chain tensioner. Unscrew this and throw it away. Once these have been fitted they can't be re-used (and they're £83 quid each :blink: ). The tension is now off the chain tension shoe and there's a bit of slack on the chain. Unbolt the 2 cam pulleys and remove them, chain is now slack. At the top of the front cover is the pivot bolt for the chain shoe, remove this bolt (22mm) and slide the chain shoe out, take care not to move the bottom shoe which is held by the same bolt:
Posted Image

Now, between the centre gear and the inlet cam is another chain guide shoe, this guide needs to come out. The top bolt (10mm) is obvious, right next to the cam gear, the bottom bolt is behind a plug in the timing case, just above the centre gear. Be double careful not to drop either of these bolts or they'll drop into the sump. Remove the chain guide. Then, remove the chain from the centre gear.

Now the timing chain is disconnected from the cams, unbolt the cam carrier and lift it off. Leave the locking pins in the cams. Below the cam carrier is the rockers, these just lift out, make sure you keep them in order, they need to go back I the same holes they came out of:
Posted Image

So far so good, all that's left now is the head bolts. The 6 main bolts (biggest ones) are in mega tight, don't be tempted to use 3/8 drive Torx sockets, you WILL snap them. 1/2 drive at least here. There's 4 smaller bolts, these aren't quite as tight, and 4 small bolts which don't do much clamping, more to keep the front of the head down around the timing case. Whip these bolts out in order. That's it. Lift the head off, it's on 2 dowels so will need to come off straight:

Posted Image

On this head I've had problems with, there's no obvious signs of head gasket failure, no tracking across the gasket or head itself. There's cracking around all 4 heater plug holes, but that's normal, nowt to worry about. But with a straight edge on it, we could see straight away it was bowed. Only one thing for it, fire up the Dinosaur:
Posted Image

Skimmed the head and nailed it back on.

Edited by cieranc, Mar 29 2013, 11:33 PM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
ivecojoe
No Avatar
Member
[ *  * ]
Nice work, what I would give for a workshop like that! good pictures as well....good job. Paul
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
cieranc
No Avatar
Member
[ *  * ]
Refitting is pretty much the opposite of removal, as the Haynes Manual says. Some things to bear in mind though:

Make sure the face of the block is clean before fitting head gasket. Get some help lifting the head back on, it's heavy and awkward to hold at the back. Because it's a tight fit on the dowels, it has to go down straight. If t doesn't go down straight it'll jam. "Alto" is Italian for Top, when it comes to getting the head gasket the right way up!

The Head bolts torque so far (think 180nm), then angle torque the rest of the way, the 6 mains torque through 90 degrees stage 1, then another 90 degrees. Tight.
The mid-sized bolts are 180nm, 90 deg then 60deg. So make sure you've got a way of measuring angles. The small bolts are just to 25nm, no angles:
Posted Image

With the head torqued down, lay the cam carrier gasket in place on the top of the head.
Make sure the rocker plungers are totally clean, and oil them well when you fit them back into the head:
Posted Image

When you drop the cam carrier on, it needs to go on totally flat. If you move it slightly one way or the other, it'll knock rockers off the valves (the rockers just sit on top of the valves). There's a pair of Iveco tools to guide the cam carrier on, I used 2 deep sockets that were exactly the same size as the injectors. Shove a socket down front and back injector holes, the cam carrier can then use these as a guide:
Posted Image
Torque the cam carrier down then you're ready to refit the timing chain.

Right, refitting the chain is pretty much the opposite to removal. First off, drop the chain into the timing case from above, and place it around the centre gear. I used a bungee to hold the top of the chain up.
Then, refit the fixed chain guide between centre gear and inlet cam. Remember to take care placing the bolts in, if you drop one it'll drop down the timing case and into the sump :).

From here things get fiddly and a second pair of hands is useful. You need to get tension in the chain between the inlet cam and the centre gear. To do this, I refitted the cam gear, levered this to take pressure off the cam lock pin, then put a screwdriver in place of the lock pin. Remove the cam wheel again, then use the screwdriver to lever the cam clockwise against the valve springs. With it held clockwise, refit the cam wheel with the chain in place. Get your spare hands to hold the chain onto the centre gear, in case it slips. Release the screwdriver (don't remove it, just use it to twist the cam)and the cam will try to turn anti-clockwise as the valve springs push it. This pulls the chain tight. Stick a tywrap though one of the cam wheel holes and around the chain, to stop it jumping off.

With the chain tight between the centre gear and the inlet cam wheel, do exactly the same (lever the exhaust cam) with the exhaust cam to get tension between exhaust cam and inlet cam. Again, when you're happy the chain is tensioned between exhaust, inlet and centre gears, stick a tywrap around the chain on exhaust cam wheel.

Now all that's left is the moving shoe. Slide this into the timing case and into place against the chain. Take care not to move the bottom shoe, this tensions the crank chain. With the shoe in place, refit the big bolt that both shoes pivot on and torque it up.

With the moving/tensioner shoe in place and secured, screw a new chain tensioner into the side of the head and torque up. Then, with a long screwdriver, push the top of the moving shoe against the tensioner. The tensioner will spring open, tensioning the shoe. That's it.

Check all your timing marks again, make sure you're happy with everything. Torque up the cam wheel bolts. Then remove both cam locking pins (or screwdrivers) and crank locking pin, refit crank bolt and rotate the engine a few times. All being well, after 3 turns you can drop the cam and crank locking pins straight back in, everything should line up right.

Front cover back on, vacuum filter back in and covered up. Stick the crank pulley back on, put the fan belt on and torque the crank nut up. MAKE SURE CAM LOCK PINS ARE REMOVED. 1st gear, wheels chocked, someone stood on the footbrake.

Refit injectors and glow plugs and refit wiring loom. Refit battery neg. Check oil level then spin the engine over. Be aware, it won't fire straight up. The hydraulic tappets will need oil pressure building up before they'll work, so expect the engine to cough and fart a bit before it actually runs. Once it does run and you're happy with it, shove everything back together. If your engine has an EGR cooler like this one does, now's a good time to steam clean it out. Same with the inlet manifold if it's full of carbon/gunk.

Easy eh?


Cheers Paul, though there's nowt flash about our workshop. The one tool in here that helps is the windy gun to knock the crank pully bolt out. Another technique is to use a 3/4 drive socket with a Tbar, get the bar up against the chassis rail and give the starter motor a quick flick. A bit brutal but it'll make enough torque to crack the bolt loose.

This trucks done over 1000k now and the problem's gone, so I guess it was just a bent head causing the problems.

Price wise:
Head Gasket kit from Iveco - £176
Cam chain tensioner from Iveco - £83
Anti-freeze will need topping up if not re-using original.
Good practice to change the engine oil after the job's done.

Local machine shop said they could source an after market kit for £134, but there was only one supplier and they didn't have a good reputation for quality - they wouldn't use that kit themselves. So went for the OE kit.

I couldn't source an after-market chain tensioner, so had to use OE parts.
Edited by cieranc, Mar 29 2013, 11:48 PM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Spooky_b329
Member Avatar
Administrator
[ *  * ]
Thanks for your detailed posting Cieranc...you just earned yourself a promotion to the highly coveted 'expert' group.

Don't get too excited...its just a different word by your name :)

http://ivecoforums.com/members/?search_type=start&name=&group=18183&sort=name&order=a
Edited by Spooky_b329, Mar 30 2013, 07:29 PM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
cieranc
No Avatar
Member
[ *  * ]
Woo Hoo! Do I get a pay rise then?

We've got a few Dailys of various vintage, if it helps I'll start doing write-ups on the regular jobs (torsion bars, springs, cab mounts, that sort of thing).

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
« Previous Topic · Iveco Daily 2006-2014 (previously 4th & 5th gen forums) · Next Topic »
Add Reply

These forums are free and rely upon the goodwill of members to help and assist others. Any donations will be gratefully received.