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New member in need of HELP
Topic Started: Jun 2 2013, 08:12 PM (3,409 Views)
bigbellytom
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H all,

New to the forum, new to iveco...

So ill tell you my story and why I need help. (Very long story cut short)

I bought a race camper 2 weeks ago. It's a 2.8td 35S11V year 2000. It's an extra long wheel base with a full camper conversion and race garage so its quite heavy. On the drive home I noticed it was incredibly slow, flat out it would do 75mph and I do mean flat out. I bought it from a wealthy guy, decent house, nice family so I trusted him (massive fail)..

I got it about 60 miles and smelt oil... Pulled over and it had dumped about 3 litres... The underside of the van was dripping, the left side and all up the back doors were covered. Rang the guy, he told me to eff off pretty much.

Took it to a friend and the rear crank seal was gone... So got a new one and new clutch and had it all fitted.... Checked the turbo and there was a lot of end to end play on the shaft ( no real sideways movement)...

So yesterday I took the girlfriend away in it as its all fixed... Ye I got 25 miles down the m5 and exactly the same happend.... It dumped 2-3litres of oil... Got it recovered straight to the mate that fitted the seal.... We checked it and the seal and it was dry...

We eventually worked out it was the oil breather pipe in the passenger front wheel arch... So the engine is pressurising and spitting its oil out... It's spitting litres per minute out when its flat out...

Has anyone had experience of this?. Could it be the turbo waste gate stuck? Or is it likely to be pistons rings or head gasket making the oil pressure rise too much....

We disconnected air in and out of the turbo and the inlet was still spitting oil... The turbo inside and all pipes and intercooler was wet with oil inside... I'm talking puddles of oil...

Funny thing is there's no smoke at all.... Inside of the exhaust tail pipe is sooty but not oily and its dry.... Cooling system seems fine although the guy I bought it from said it had had a new radiator recently??

Please advise if there's any common issues on these as I know nothing about them??

Thanks

Tom
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cieranc
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Sounds like you've bought a dud.

First things first - Get a compression test done. You're wasting your time changing parts until the compression is tested.

Then, post back here with the results.
Edited by cieranc, Jun 2 2013, 11:40 PM.
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aidan
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Quote:
 
Checked the turbo and there was a lot of end to end play on the shaft ( no real sideways movement)...


Did you replace the turbo ? ( clean inter cooler )

Aidan
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bigbellytom
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Yes I defo bought a dud!!! :(

Hopefully being compression tested today... Do you know what compression they should be??? The gauge I have is up to 250psi?

I haven't replaced turbo... I literally replaced crank seal as it was what was gone... And clutch as it was soaked in oil.... My guess is the engine pressurised and blew the seal... Now it's fixed its found another way out??
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tuftey
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hi i had thesame problem on my 2nd iveco i had it was self inflicked by me forgot to do a oil change and oil turned to gum and blown turbo on me and gummed all the oilways up finally rebuilt it and that was breathing heavy just like you stated
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cieranc
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Did you do a full engine rebuild Tufty?

If you put the oil scraper rings on upside down on the pistons, then the engine will be a smoker.

Scrapes the gunk off the cylinder walls upwards into the combustion chamber instead of downwards into the sump.


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bigbellytom
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So I've replaced turbo, breather box..etc.

Still blowing oil which suggests to me the block is nackered??

Mine is showing on iveco's data base as a mechanical diesel pump model - engine code 814043c.
I can get an 814043b engine but I think this is a high pressure head as its got a fuel rail...

Can I put my head on the b code block. Iveco said its the same block but different head...

I'm really stuck so could do with some advice??

Has anyone got an engine?

Mine is a year 2000 2.8td. Engine code 814043c (Iveco told me from the reg number of the van)
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Kenbarcon
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bigbellytom
Jun 6 2013, 03:26 PM
So I've replaced turbo, breather box..etc.

Still blowing oil which suggests to me the block is nackered??

Mine is showing on iveco's data base as a mechanical diesel pump model - engine code 814043c.
I can get an 814043b engine but I think this is a high pressure head as its got a fuel rail...

Can I put my head on the b code block. Iveco said its the same block but different head...

I'm really stuck so could do with some advice??

Has anyone got an engine?

Mine is a year 2000 2.8td. Engine code 814043c (Iveco told me from the reg number of the van)
JS Commercials my be able to help you with that. 07765 544448
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cieranc
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Have you done a compression test ?
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bigbellytom
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Haven't done compression as its going to cost me £200 anywhere.. I can't afford to waste any more money on it!!

My question is... What can make it doing what's its doing...?

Turbo... Replaced
Breathers, checked, cleaned and replaced
Head gasket possibly?? No water issues, no water pressure excess
Piston rings, pistons or crank?? Only thing I'm left with. So to spend £200 for knowing this seems foolish... Although I no it's normally the sensible thing,... In this case I feel I've exhausted all other avenues...

Can you tell me...

The blocks from the 2 vans, mine and the donor I have found are the same....
My engine code is 814043c
Donor engine code is 814043b

Iveco said that the block is the same but the head differs... Can anyone tell me if I can use just the block from the donor?? As just because the head is high pressure fuel fed, it won't effect the block??

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cieranc
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It could also be stuck rings, valve stem seals, a blown head gasket between a cylinder and oil gallery or a cracked head between a cylinder and oil gallery.

A wet and dry compression test will tell you if it's losing compression from the piston rings or the cylinder head.

Would hate to think you fitted a new bottom end, only to find the head's cracked :$


Got you thinking now hasn't it, £200 for a compression test to prove it's the bottom end or the head, or swap the bottom end which might not cure the fault :D :ermm: ;)


Go on then here's a bit more to think about:
With the engine warmed up, does it spit oil out of the dipstick tube if you pull the dipstick out?
Has the engine ever had Aerostart / Dampstart sprayed into it (the biggest cause of smashed piston rings)?
Have you tried filling the bores with redex and leaving for a day or two (frees seized in rings) ?
If you put a tyre lever into the hole in the bell-housing, can you lever the flywheel back and forth ?
Edited by cieranc, Jun 7 2013, 12:22 AM.
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bigbellytom
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cieranc
Jun 7 2013, 12:17 AM
It could also be stuck rings, valve stem seals, a blown head gasket between a cylinder and oil gallery or a cracked head between a cylinder and oil gallery.

A wet and dry compression test will tell you if it's losing compression from the piston rings or the cylinder head.

Would hate to think you fitted a new bottom end, only to find the head's cracked :$


Got you thinking now hasn't it, £200 for a compression test to prove it's the bottom end or the head, or swap the bottom end which might not cure the fault :D :ermm: ;)


Go on then here's a bit more to think about:
With the engine warmed up, does it spit oil out of the dipstick tube if you pull the dipstick out?
Has the engine ever had Aerostart / Dampstart sprayed into it (the biggest cause of smashed piston rings)?
Have you tried filling the bores with redex and leaving for a day or two (frees seized in rings) ?
If you put a tyre lever into the hole in the bell-housing, can you lever the flywheel back and forth ?
Defo food for thought..

There not pressure in the water system... No oil / water mix..

The van doesn't spit oil out the dipstick when running.

I changed the breather block earlier and drove it... No difference.

If you drive it slowly, on turbo but not hard it doesn't seem to spit much if any oil... However if you hammer it it dumps it out a hell of a rate!!

I would think with stem seals, rings, head gasket it would normally show other signs?? Smoking for example?? Mine has no smoke and no oil or liquid in the exhaust??

What has the fly wheel got to do with it I'm intrigued :/

Tom
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cieranc
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It wouldn't pressurise or contaminate the oil or water if there was a crack between a cylinder and an oil way.
The piston would upstroke, the compression would escape to an oil gallery, pressurising the sump. The pressure's got to go somewhere, so it takes the easiest way out - the breather.

Water pressurises with a crack between cylinder and water jacket.
Water contaminates with crack between oil gallery and water jacket.

Stupid question, but it isn't too full with oil is it? Got the right dipstick in it?

Next up, check the timing. Whip the rocker box off and have a look at the cam - are the lobes worn to a sharp point? They should be nicely pear shaped, not sharp.

Known fault with the thrust bearings, the crank can move one way, grinding it's way through the bottom block, allowing a lot of end-float on the crank, pistons run cock-eyed, knacks the bores/pistons/rings.
You check this by levering the flywheel back and forth.
Usually this first gets noticed by it going into limp mode, as the flywheel moves away from the crank sensor.

But all the above is irrelevant, you need to know if it's a bottom end fault or a head fault. Where abouts are you? A compression test takes about an hour, not sure why you're being quoted £200.

Or just put a full engine in.
Edited by cieranc, Jun 7 2013, 10:27 PM.
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bigbellytom
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cieranc
Jun 7 2013, 10:20 PM
It wouldn't pressurise or contaminate the oil or water if there was a crack between a cylinder and an oil way.
The piston would upstroke, the compression would escape to an oil gallery, pressurising the sump. The pressure's got to go somewhere, so it takes the easiest way out - the breather.

Water pressurises with a crack between cylinder and water jacket.
Water contaminates with crack between oil gallery and water jacket.

Stupid question, but it isn't too full with oil is it? Got the right dipstick in it?

Next up, check the timing. Whip the rocker box off and have a look at the cam - are the lobes worn to a sharp point? They should be nicely pear shaped, not sharp.

Known fault with the thrust bearings, the crank can move one way, grinding it's way through the bottom block, allowing a lot of end-float on the crank, pistons run cock-eyed, knacks the bores/pistons/rings.
You check this by levering the flywheel back and forth.
Usually this first gets noticed by it going into limp mode, as the flywheel moves away from the crank sensor.

But all the above is irrelevant, you need to know if it's a bottom end fault or a head fault. Where abouts are you? A compression test takes about an hour, not sure why you're being quoted £200.

Or just put a full engine in.
First of all thanks for all your help...

In my experience, whether the head or block is duff, replacing one is a waste of time... Every time I've done or had this sort of work done it never runs the same... Maybe I've had bad experiences.. But I'm on the hunt for an engine now I think..

Defo got the right amount of oil in and I assume dipstick is right as once its spat out loads of oil and the oil doesn't register on the dipstick the oil light is flashing...

With regards to timing ..etc... The thing with this van is it starts first turn, it runs sweet and it sounds lovely... I have been speaking with John at JS commercials as someone above advised... Very helpful. Guy and he said yesterday it sounds and starts as it should...he was as baffled as me...

It doesn't run in limp mode... As far as I know..?

There's a top diesel specialist in Bristol that everyone recommends and there quoting £200 ish for a general check and comp test...
Iveco Gloucester as saying its 2 hours and they are £75 plus bat per hour...

I'm in Stroud in Gloucestershire... I'm hoping your next door :)

The problem I have is every time I try and find a fault I'm spending money and finding nothing... So I'm thinking find a complete engine and pop it in with a cambelt kit...etc and then I have a good chance of being ok...

One other thing Iveco advised... The oil pressure valve?? Is it likely? How hard is it to get to as I'm going to have to do it myself??

I'm almost convinced that's its not the engine... Like I say, there's no signs of the engine being duff... No smoke, No lumpy running, no problem starting, no noises, no bangs...etc its a right tricky one!!!! :(


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coswurv
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What about turbo oil return pipe could that be coming loose under hard acceleration and splurting oil out ?
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