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Climbing, Descending; Using the Daily in the mountains
Topic Started: Jul 20 2013, 11:10 AM (1,224 Views)
heliski22
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It's been a while since I've been on the site so a lot more topics have been posted and discussed and I don't know if anybody has a similar query to this...

Specifically, I'm now using my 50C15 camper conversion (see 50C15 Camper in Off Topics, 2010) in the Alps and a couple of things have been brought into sharper relief. The van is heavy - even empty it weighs a tad short of 4000kgs.

The first is the fan which, as I understand it cuts in when the temperature reaches 92 degrees or thereabouts and will run until the temperature comes down again to 80 degrees. On long climbs the temperature stays high, sometimes at 90 degrees as the motor works its way up the hill. For the fan to work most efficiently, the engine rpm needs to be high as, once coupled, the fan is directly connected to the pulley. Is there any value to be had from adding an electric fan in front of the radiator to operate in support of the mechanical fan?

The second is coming down long descents - it is necessary to keep the speed way down or there is a grave risk of overheating the brakes and losing the lot over the side. It takes very little to achieve the smell of burning brakes! I came over the Mont cenis Pass last October and it took nearly 45 minutes to crawl the 20kms down into Susa in second gear and even then I needed to use the brakes on and off. Ok, it was loaded right up to the DGVW (5200kgs) at the time and very heavy, but still within spec.

I came down from the top of Simplon Pass yesterday, once down into Brig on the Swiss side and then later in the day back down into Domodossola on the Italian side (all at around 4300kgs) and it was very slow going, pulling over quite frequently to let other traffic past.

Obviously, vehicles at this weight level don't have supplementary braking devices (exhaust brake/retarder) and so it's all down to the service brakes. Or is it?

Anybody any thoughts or experiences in this area?
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aidan
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Hi

my only contribution is to remember the importance of changing or at least testing the brake fluid before embarking on this type of usage.

Cheers Aidan
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markthelark
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I would say that if you have DOT 4 or better , and the pads are good. Coming down using the brakes should be ok , just watch-out for fade. Not sure , but maybe there are some harder pads available , watch out when they are cold though.
Just have to put-up with the smell.
For piece of mind you could fit a electric fan too , but the original seem's to be doing what it should.
The main problem with mountain work is the low air density , you have less air for the fan to pull through the rad.
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Spooky_b329
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You seem to be doing all the right things! There were some Aussies on here looking at retrofitting a retarder but I think the conclusion was that it was very expensive and concerns over the particulate filter etc.

An alternative to an electric fan would be to add an over ride to the existing fan. I think the best method would be to cut the 12v feed to the fan some way up the loom, and extend with two wires into the cab to a switch. Then bring a permanent ignition switched feed to the switch. The original 12v feed would be wired to the 'auto' side of the switch, and the new 12v would go to the 'on' or 'over-ride' side of the switch. So you would end up with a switch in the cab that selects auto (normally off/computer controlled) and over-ride (on permanently).

Can anyone envisage a problem with this? If the switch was a 'break before make' there is no chance of sending 12v to the computer, and the ignition controlled 12v would to prevent the fan electromagnet from draining the battery whilst parked. (I managed this after directly wiring the fan to the battery and forgetting about it overnight!)

With the fan manually engaged it will reduce the available power of the engine so you might want to just let the engine run hot on particularly steep climbs, no point making it work harder than it needs to. On the downhills, the fan would give that little bit more braking effect through the engine which is a good thing.

One final thing, has it had any modifications to the rear suspension such as extra leafs or bump stops? Anything that has raised the ride height at all will mean the load sensing valve is providing less effort to the rear brakes so it could be they are not doing their fair share of the braking, which would result in the front brakes working harder and a possible reason for them over heating easily. (unless its already been adjusted for the changed ride height)
Edited by Spooky_b329, Jul 20 2013, 04:18 PM.
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markthelark
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Spooky_b329
Jul 20 2013, 04:01 PM
You seem to be doing all the right things! There were some Aussies on here looking at retrofitting a retarder but I think the conclusion was that it was very expensive and concerns over the particulate filter etc.

An alternative to an electric fan would be to add an over ride to the existing fan. I think the best method would be to cut the 12v feed to the fan some way up the loom, and extend with two wires into the cab to a switch. Then bring a permanent ignition switched feed to the switch. The original 12v feed would be wired to the 'auto' side of the switch, and the new 12v would go to the 'on' or 'over-ride' side of the switch. So you would end up with a switch in the cab that selects auto (normally off/computer controlled) and over-ride (on permanently).

Can anyone envisage a problem with this? If the switch was a 'break before make' there is no chance of sending 12v to the computer, and the ignition controlled 12v would to prevent the fan electromagnet from draining the battery whilst parked. (I managed this after directly wiring the fan to the battery and forgetting about it overnight!)

With the fan manually engaged it will reduce the available power of the engine so you might want to just let the engine run hot on particularly steep climbs, no point making it work harder than it needs to. On the downhills, the fan would give that little bit more braking effect through the engine which is a good thing.

One final thing, has it had any modifications to the rear suspension such as extra leafs or bump stops? Anything that has raised the ride height at all will mean the load sensing valve is providing less effort to the rear brakes so it could be they are not doing their fair share of the braking, which would result in the front brakes working harder and a possible reason for them over heating easily. (unless its already been adjusted for the changed ride height)
Not sure what would happen if you put 12v onto the input side when the ecu hasn't switched. You could put a diode into the circuit , stopping a return path. You could take the new "over-ride" 12v from a switched feed , then when ignition off - circuit off.
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heliski22
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I'll check the brake fluid, Aidan, no harm in running some fresh stuff through the system from time to time anyway. Pads are new, from Iveco and a brand new set of discs on the front as well.

However, funny you should mention it, Spooky, but the rear has had a leaf added each side and it does sit a little higher and without any adjustment made to the load-sensing device, I might add. I'll need to have a look at that right away - thanks, I hadn't thought of that.

Am I right in my assumption that an exhaust brake is not a possibilitry on this vehicle?

Thanks, all!

22
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Spooky_b329
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markthelark, I edited my last post and think we overlapped...I figured a way that means you don't need to send 12v to the ECU. Now I've figured it out I'll probably do this to mine at some point. (read my edited post if interested!)

Heliski, I only mention it as I've made a very minor change to the ride height, virtually nothing when unladen as a camper but probably +20mm when towing a heavy horsebox, and the brakes don't seem quite as effective!

Exhaust brake, again I think expensive/untested was the conclusion.
Edited by Spooky_b329, Jul 20 2013, 09:26 PM.
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heliski22
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I presumed it wasn't even a consideration but using the search function on the site led me after a couple of clicks to a review of something to do with motorhomes in Australia, the difference between the Mercedes and the Iveco options from some motorhome supplier being the Iveco came with an exhaust brake. The accompanying photo showed a 1999-2006 model.

Anyway, I must also see if I can find any local source of information here where I live now in the north of Italy have any words of wisdom seeing as we're so near the mountains.

Thanks again!

22
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markthelark
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heliski22
Jul 21 2013, 05:37 PM
I presumed it wasn't even a consideration but using the search function on the site led me after a couple of clicks to a review of something to do with motorhomes in Australia, the difference between the Mercedes and the Iveco options from some motorhome supplier being the Iveco came with an exhaust brake. The accompanying photo showed a 1999-2006 model.

Anyway, I must also see if I can find any local source of information here where I live now in the north of Italy have any words of wisdom seeing as we're so near the mountains.

Thanks again!

22
"22" - now that's a Catch !
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Bazil-S
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heliski22
 
Hi,

My advice is before making modifications, I mean, to add an exhaust brake, and/or an electric fan, do a complete check of the braking system. It is very possible to be a stuck caliper or the brakes to be unbalanced.
Go to an IVECO center and adjusts the load sensing valve and do a check on the roller test bench.
I'm not saying that an exhaust brake is not a good thing, I have not seen one mounted on Daily and of course I'm curious about the effectiveness of a device like this.
Over the years I have crossed the Alps a few times in my former and prezent recovery Daily's and they did an excellent job.
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heliski22
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Bazil-S
Jul 22 2013, 06:54 PM
heliski22
 
Hi,

My advice is before making modifications, I mean, to add an exhaust brake, and/or an electric fan, do a complete check of the braking system. It is very possible to be a stuck caliper or the brakes to be unbalanced.
Go to an IVECO center and adjusts the load sensing valve and do a check on the roller test bench.
I'm not saying that an exhaust brake is not a good thing, I have not seen one mounted on Daily and of course I'm curious about the effectiveness of a device like this.
Over the years I have crossed the Alps a few times in my former and prezent recovery Daily's and they did an excellent job.
Sure Bazil....not about to go charging off into the unknown!

Thanks!!

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