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| Cutting out; 35s12 2003 Random fault cuts engine then seems fine | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: May 22 2014, 04:27 PM (1,282 Views) | |
| Tom Salmon | May 22 2014, 04:27 PM Post #1 |
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Hi again folks, my 2003 35S12 has developed a strange problem. It is cutting out seemingly at random and without any fault lights then restarts and seems to run well before doing it again. When I turn the ignition back on the injector fault light is missing from the dash during system check and the low pressure pump does not run. After a few attempts the injector light reappears on system start and the pump runs, all seems fine. I have checked the pump it runs well. I have a feeling that it is an electrical fault and was wondering if it could be a faulty relay. I say this because I am used to hearing the relays click before start up and when the fault occurs I cant hear the same number of clicks. Can anyone tell me which relay does what and whether it might be worth replacing one or more? I'm pretty desperate as I have a big journey in Europe planned for next week. I thought that I should just get it to Iveco for a diagnostic but the fault is so intermittent that it might not show up. As always any advice would be most welcome. Thanks in advance. Tom |
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| Bazil-S | May 22 2014, 06:22 PM Post #2 |
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Hi, Honestly I do not understand .... I posted some time ago, the fuse and relay diagram, in the download section, but nobody uses it. Instead it jumps to opening a new topic, again and again ... Remove and clean the normal size white fuse (25A) from top right side, then clean the fuse socket pins. Replace the big relay under the white fuse, only if the faults is not cured. |
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| Tom Salmon | May 22 2014, 08:25 PM Post #3 |
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Dearest Bazil-S, I am truly sorry if this issue of mine causes annoyance. I have today trawled through the forum posts and downloaded the said diagram. I have checked fuses and relay connections, I have phoned Iveco dealer and several specialist diagnostic folk who were all too busy to come, and frankly I had almost given up. Until I read your post! Your confident and exasperated reply has done me no end of good, you have given me a glimmer of hope in a dark place, and I thank you! Tomorrow I will do as you suggest and calm down, knowing that the good folk at Iveco forums can and will help. Onward my friend and thanks for bothering. Tom |
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| Bazil-S | May 22 2014, 09:45 PM Post #4 |
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Dear Tom, You do not bother me with requests for assistance. Look at it this way: over time, there were many topics about where it is, or who is the fuse or relay for the X component. Due the brief outline of the fuse box from van, I made available for download a more detailing diagram of the fuse box. Similarly, we have provided a table of fluids used in Daily, but the threads are doubled, then tripled, and so on, with questions like: what type of oil, etc. .. On any forum on the internet these topic duplications are penalized, or banned. These duplications of threads leading to a more difficult search, lead to disorder, and waste of space and bandwidth on the hosting server. Those who made these guidance documents to be handy, have the feeling of working in vain. This is a remark for all members of the forum, but it happened to post in your topics... for that I apologize! Clean the fuse, look after microscopic traces of spark on contact tabs. Eventually replace the fuse and try to squeeze a little bit the socket pins. The second possible fault is the relay mentioned above, replace it only if the fuse contacts does not solve the defect. The third defect possible... I do not tell you yet! Edited by Bazil-S, May 22 2014, 09:47 PM.
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| Tom Salmon | May 23 2014, 12:48 PM Post #5 |
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Thank you Basil for your kind response. I had a good look at the fuse, it was nice and firm in its holder, no burn marks or discoloration and it was a nice tight fit on replacement. I have ordered a new relay and will fit it tomorrow. I tried driving just around the block to see if I could discover the exact conditions when the engine cuts out but I am no wiser. It seems to do it when under load in second gear mostly. I left the engine ticking over for a while and it seemed fine but as soon as I drove down the street it did it again. I am baffled by it. You mentioned a 3rd possible cause, is this going to cost me lots of money? Thanks for your help. Tom PS. I will be very careful about starting new topics in future. Edited by Tom Salmon, May 23 2014, 12:50 PM.
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| Tom Salmon | May 24 2014, 11:07 AM Post #6 |
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Ok, I changed the relay, at first it did not seem to work at all, the injector light just kept flashing and it would not start. Put the old relay back, it started. I thought that perhaps the new one was just a little sticky so I tried it again, this time no flashing light and the engine started. Went for a drive around the block and the blessed thing cut out. I now wonder if there is just a loose connection somewhere interrupting the current to the edc but I do not have a wiring diagram so I am at a loss as how to trace the fault. Can anyone help with some sort of schematic that would give me a clue as to where to start. Or perhaps I am just looking in completely the wrong place. Now panicking! Tom |
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| Bazil-S | May 25 2014, 10:32 AM Post #7 |
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Hi, My advice is to buy the entire workshop manual from Ebay, if you want to do repair by yourself. The manual has wiring diagrams, and also describe the functioning of the electrical systems. If you do not understand something, I am willing to help you. The third possibility is indeed expensive, it's about EDC. If there is a problem with the EDC, you will not be able to fix it, only in a Iveco center. |
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| Tom Salmon | May 25 2014, 06:00 PM Post #8 |
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Thank you Bazil, I sort of thought that is what you would say. I do seem though to have make an improvement. I had a good look at the fuse board to check all connections and found a connection on the fused link that was not tight so fixed it. I took the van for a 30 min run and it did not cut out completely but did loose power when I hit a bad bump and on Sheffields roads that happens quite a lot. I will check more connections and the main earths. I will also check the voltage to the edc relay. Do you know please if the edc supply comes from the ignition relay via the edc relay & does the edc earth direct to the body or to the battery terminal? I will now get on to ebay and look for that manual. Thanks again Bazil. Tom |
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| Bazil-S | May 26 2014, 06:58 AM Post #9 |
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Hi, How the EDC is powered: When the ignition is switched on, the positive signal reaches to EDC through fuse No. 2 and the EDC wakes up. Then EDC sends negative signal to the main relay (25858), which will give the main power to EDC. Also, the EDC will send a negative signal to the pump relay (25837). Both relays are energized by EDC because these relays runs timed . The pump relay is timed on switching the ignition On and the main relay is timed on switching the ignition Off. Positive wire to the main relay comes from black box with red top, near the battery. The connection to earth is made near the left headlamp. |
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| Tom Salmon | May 26 2014, 08:24 AM Post #10 |
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Bazil you amaze me. Are you a professional Iveco technician? I have ordered a manual on CD from ebay, why on earth I never thought of doing that sooner amazes me. Anyway I like my Iveco van and I want to keep it and maintain it. Thank you so much for all your help. Onward. Tom |
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| Tom Salmon | May 26 2014, 07:24 PM Post #11 |
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OK problem solved. Turned out to be a loose 60 amp fuse in the engine compartment behind the battery. I am a bit annoyed with myself really, because I allowed myself to get into a panic over what should have been a straightforward logistic problem solving exorcise. I became daunted by the complexity of the edc system, when I should have just got on with the simple stuff first. I have been made aware of the problems that can be caused when driving around on very poor roads (Sheffield) with very light loads. The unloaded suspension delivers repeated percussive shocks to the body of the vehicle and things will rattle loose. So, lessons learned! Thank you Iveco forums. Thank you Bazil! And thank you Iveco, for building such a fine vehicle. Its taken 11 years of this hammering and I hope its got a few more left in it! Onward!! Tom |
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| Bazil-S | May 27 2014, 05:40 PM Post #12 |
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Hi, The problem is solved, but something is wrong there. The 60 A fuse is for preheating relay and has no direct connection with EDC power supply, only this fuse socket is fixed on that interconnection box. This unit is a shunt center distributing battery positive power, via internal jumpers. Probably the one of the wires leading to this center it had weak contact and you moving the fuse, involuntarily have remade the contact. You should check the cables terminals and the blades of the interconnection center. Why I insist on the power supply of EDC and not on another electrical fault to the engine? Because the symptoms have been well described, as the warning lamp does not illuminate on the cluster check. Only the injector warning lamp and preheating lamp are supplied with power from the main relay of EDC, so there were only two possibilities: no power supply or blown EDC. |
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| Tom Salmon | May 28 2014, 08:38 PM Post #13 |
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Ah! OK Bazil, point taken. It seems I may have inadvertently improved a connection on that block. I will inspect it tomorrow in detail. Ouch! Just when I was feeling so confident. But I now have that manual and can trace the wiring with a meter. That block is rubber mounted I think! Could that be because it is in fact, a sensitive junction? Onward! Tom |
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