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| Please help me. 35C13 daily start good and random time cut off; Start and cut off | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Aug 13 2015, 11:40 AM (2,520 Views) | |
| rockyboy | Aug 13 2015, 11:40 AM Post #1 |
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Hello. Can you help me? I have an Iveco Daily gen 3 35c13. My problem is I starting the van easy, and runs well and suddenly cut off at randomly time. Sometimes when I start the engine, but somethimes just 2hrs after is started. I check the low pressure pump (AC) in the chassis, i heart the sounds but i changed the pump. I check the high pressure pump pressure regulator and it was clean but i clean with brake cleaner. I check the pressure sensor in the common rail ( i disconnect the cable) but the fault its same. I diagnosis with idc4 texa the fault is: Immobiliser I change immo module, key ring, but the fault is same. What I didn't see yet? Please help me. Regards |
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| ivecofd | Aug 14 2015, 10:15 AM Post #2 |
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35C12 2005 MWB DRW 3rd gen’ crew cab tipper F1AE04 85.3 kw 2.3 cc 16v EDC 16. One or more intermittent fault(s) can be caused by damaged/loose wiring damaged/loose connectors, poor/corroded connections, malfunctioning sensors/computer. The diagnostic test showed the immobiliser to be at fault, you may need to check the wiring to and from the immobiliser as well as associated equipment. Usually to stop a diesel engine the fuel is shut off, perhaps you can start with the thing that shuts off the fuel and trace back from there. I have just spent over one hour looking for information about immobilisers and didn't find a good explanation of how they work or the system. They are electronic and can use a wire or a radio wave to connect. It seems that the vehicle computer or and the Electronic Diesel Control can detect a status in the immobiliser or the immobiliser can affect the vehicle computer either way the fuel is shut off. Electric power to the starter can be denied. It seems that the fuel is/can be shut off by the vehicle computer. The fuel supply when the immobiliser is not activated is controlled by the vehicle computer or and the Electronic Diesel Control EDC. The EDC could be the vehicle computer. Unfortunately Iveco use various terminology to describe a thing, much of the information is split up there is no sequence or information that deals specifically with a circuit and associated equipment, generally the information on the pdf workshop manual lacks clarity and is misleading. On ivecoforums there is SEARCH top right hand side - Search - Members -FAQ - Rules - Test - perhaps by typing in different words associated with the problem you may find a solution. In attachments on the circuit diagram for the immobiliser it can be seen that the immobiliser is connected to the computer Edited by ivecofd, Aug 14 2015, 10:17 AM.
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| rockyboy | Aug 17 2015, 06:24 AM Post #3 |
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Hi. I see you. I almost done search but there no one have this problem. Similar problem there is and they said the problem low pressure pump. But mine good. I read Bazil-S writing. He said immo work only at the start, this couldn't stop the enginge, so i dont know what can i see. Thanks your reply Regards |
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| ivecofd | Aug 17 2015, 07:29 AM Post #4 |
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35C12 2005 MWB DRW 3rd gen’ crew cab tipper F1AE04 85.3 kw 2.3 cc 16v EDC 16. In attachments is an image of the F1A engine fuel system, it shows the electrical connectors. This does not include the electronics/electrics it does not show the complete system. Sometimes the mechanical connections contact surfaces have corrosion. http://www.researchgate.net/publication/208884472_Overview_of_Fretting_Corrosion_in_Electrical_Connectors Disconnect and reconnect the connectors. Unplug and replug the connectors. When the connectors are disconnected and reconnected the mechanical connection can be remade/made good. The metal connectors move against each other (rub together) and a new connection can be made. The connection can be cleaned. Be careful - do not pull the wires (the wires are thin and can break easily) - only pull the connectors apart. You shall need to find the small clips that hold the connectors together before you can pull them apart. When the connectors are apart look inside them to see if there is corrosion/damage spray inside them with WD 40 check that the wires are not loose. It can be difficult to do this because there is not always a sufficient length of wire to look inside the connector ( you cannot get the connector out to look inside it). You may need to do the diagnostic test again. There may be codes that could indicate previous problems. An intermittent fault may not show on the diagnostic test. The fault may not be seen as a fault by the diagnostic system. If no fault is seen using the diagnostics then look at the starter switch contacts/wiring (where you put the key in). There is a trouble shooting guide in the workshop manual pdf but it is very long. There is a blink code on some vehicles but I have not determined if that applies to my vehicle. I have not found what is used to shut off the fuel supply or how the fuel supply is shut off. Edited by ivecofd, Aug 17 2015, 09:31 AM.
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| rockyboy | Aug 17 2015, 12:31 PM Post #5 |
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i check all of this and everything is good. i think i will change full cable system. i dont have any idea. I'll write as soon as i can. |
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| ivecofd | Aug 17 2015, 01:45 PM Post #6 |
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35C12 2005 MWB DRW 3rd gen’ crew cab tipper F1AE04 85.3 kw 2.3 cc 16v EDC 16. https://personel.omu.edu.tr/docs/ders_dokumanlari/894_52413_1913.pdf You may understand the fuel system better if you read the above. Rail pressure control valve may have a coil resistance of 3.6 ohms. You can read about it, you can find it, scroll down to just over half way down the web page. I have not found out how the fuel system is shut off. It seems that the EDC or the ECU stops the injectors from working. There does not seem to be a shut off valve on the fuel system, the pressure relief valve (one on the rail and one on the top of the filter) could be used to reduce the pressure(s) in the system and therefore prevent the injectors from working. The EDC and ECU and the immobiliser are activated when the starter key is turned to the first position to the right. If there was a connection fault at the key or on the wiring/connectors from/to the EDC/ECU/immobiliser (an intermittent fault (bad connection) ) then the engine could stop randomly. Some years ago I found a bad solder joint on a relay on a car. Sometimes the car started and sometimes it didn't sometimes the engine ran okay and sometimes it didn't. All the console lights came on it all looked good but there was a problem it took several months to find the fault. |
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| ivecofd | Aug 17 2015, 06:17 PM Post #7 |
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35C12 2005 MWB DRW 3rd gen’ crew cab tipper F1AE04 85.3 kw 2.3 cc 16v EDC 16. Found some info re Bosch EDC 16 see attachments. Seems that if there is no signal/electric at/from the speed sensor then the engine stops. The info' in Iveco is not the same as the Bosch info'. 35C12 2005 MWB DRW 3rd gen’ crew cab tipper F1AE04 85.3 kw 2.3 cc 16v EDC 16. Edited by ivecofd, Aug 17 2015, 06:32 PM.
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| Bazil-S | Aug 17 2015, 08:30 PM Post #8 |
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Hi, The system works as follows: Immobilizer accepts the key code, then communicate to the EDC the permission to start, but these two ECU have a different minimum voltage, so in case of low battery can occur the above mentioned fault. In other words, immo has minimum 11.2V before stops working, but the EDC has 10.8V minimum voltage. On ignition the immo send the start permission to EDC, but when you crank the voltage will drop to 11V. The engine would start due the permission already stated in EDC, but the connection with immo will be lost and the fault will occur in EDC memory. If all possible mechanical defects were checked, then check the power supply to EDC. Start with large white fuse by 25A (check the fuse pads for bad contacts). |
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Immobiliser_circuit.docx (189.94 KB)