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Climate control 35S17 -2006; Heating doesn't work properly. Warms at first, then blows cool air.
Topic Started: Sep 9 2015, 08:57 AM (1,703 Views)
Merlin
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I have an issue with the climate control of my Daily 35S17 -2006 year model (picture of the control panel attached).
At cool temperatures, when I would like to have some warming, I might, for example, switch the left-most selector to "24". Usually, the fan will then blow warm air - but after a while, it will blow cold instead.
This is quite independent from the number chosen, even switching to "28" doesn't change, it usually still will blow cool.
The only way to get warm air is then to switch to "Hi". But then it will get too warm after a while. This is rather annoying.
Someone who experienced similar problem?

I should mention that the coolant of the engine has been changed a year ago, and approximately then I discovered this problem. This does not mean that the two things must be connected, but they might?
Does anybody know how the heat changer (for the climate system) works or where it is placed?

Thanks for any hints of what the cause of the problem might be, or how to search for it.
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Attachments: panel.jpg (194.5 KB)
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ivecofd
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35C12 2005 MWB DRW 3rd gen’ crew cab tipper F1AE04 85.3 kw 2.3 cc 16v EDC 16.
There's climate control, there's air conditioning and there's the basic hot, cool, cold.
Iveco have all three, I have not found a dwg for the basic heater set up, it does not mean there isn't one and it'll be incorporated into the other two.

Your image shows controls for the basic thing (maybe) which is the same as mine except that your temperature control has numbers on it.

There could be an air lock from when you changed the coolant. Over time the heat exchanger can warm up, when it is cooled by the fan and there isn't sufficient hot water flow then you'll get cool air coming out. The valve that allows coolant to flow to/from the heat exchanger may be partially open. A pipe has collapsed. There is a rag or some restriction in the relevant pipes/units. On the dwg for the CC and AC there is a solenoid valve so a restriction could be there.

On some engine coolant systems the coolant goes from the engine to the heat exchanger (for the cab) first then to the thermostat and then to the radiator. This method allows for heating the cab quickly (quicker). So if there is a restriction/ air pocket in the pipework/unit to/from the heat exchanger then the flow is reduced. As said the heat exchanger can over time warm up (slow through flow) when the fan is on it there isn't sufficient flow of hot water to keep the temp up.

I could look at the wk shp ml but it'll take some time.
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Merlin
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Thank you ivecofd!

Hm, well - my Iveco has AC as a button on or off ("eco" button), allowing for either cooled (really cold) air or just outside temperature air when blowing cool air.
Then there is the temperature adjustment that is supposed to keep the temperature steady at a certain level with can be adjusted left on the panel by setting it to a number (maybe approximate "degree C" but it doesn't tell).
I e it's not just hot/cool/cold (actually, when it's warm outside, the thing can blow very cold air when the AC is activated).
But what exactly the setup is called, I do not know unfortunately.

But I guess there might be an air lock, exactly according to your explanation, as the coolant was changed some time ago.
How do I find out how to remove that air - if it exists?
Thanks for any hints, even if it takes some time.
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ivecofd
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35C12 2005 MWB DRW 3rd gen’ crew cab tipper F1AE04 85.3 kw 2.3 cc 16v EDC 16.
I've just had a look at the wk shp ml but as usual it's info' isn't collated so one can easily see the whole and then part of the system and associated systems / units.
Often modern info' leaves out basic stuff.

It could be self venting. I don't see a vent on what I have looked at, I may not have looked at just the right image. Often with modern stuff they don't put all the required info' in the place where it is needed. They do name info as AC and heating but don't show the heating side of it.

If there is a bit of an air lock one could put the vehicle front down on a hill so that the header tank is much higher than the radiator and then take off the header tank cap and that action could just shift things around.

If it is self venting then the problem can be a restriction, such as a valve not opening. Solenoid vv or thermostat.

One possibility is that the flap that lets in the hot air is moving on its own, but you say it blows cold. There are mixer flaps. There are temp sensors and one of them could be reading wrong.

The info' is for the F1A engine. The attachment didn't attach, I'll try again later.

Edited by ivecofd, Sep 9 2015, 01:50 PM.
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Bazil-S
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Hi,

The cooling system is self venting.
A possible fault may be the clogging of the heat exchanger (internal radiator). This could happens on replacement with an incompatible type of antifreeze.
Mixing two different types of antifreeze lead to precipitate formation, clogging the cells.
If there is an error of the air conditioning system (as flaps motors, or sensors..), it should be displayed in cluster, like "CLI-03".
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ivecofd
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35C12 2005 MWB DRW 3rd gen’ crew cab tipper F1AE04 85.3 kw 2.3 cc 16v EDC 16.

This info' may not apply to your vehicle. The following info' is what I have deducted, it may not be correct.

I have tried again to attach dwgs. I now realise that some of the dwgs are for lh drive vehicles. It did seem that the cab heater pipe connections could be accessed from the eng' comp'. I have taken some photos and a video of mine, however the file sizes are large. I did use the mobile phone but I can't get the images off the phone.
In attachments are photos that I have altered in photoshop to reduce the file size and add some text. They do not give a clear impressions of what to do and where to do it.

If the cab heater is clogged up then it could be possible to flush it out. There are connections in the eng' comp' which are accessible which may allow flushing out of the cab heater. You may need a solution to dissolve the clogging. A restriction in the heater could be indicated by the amount of fluid/water that passes through.
By firstly observing the amount of water that comes out of the garden hose at different tap positions you may assess the amount of water that is flowing through the heater when the hose is connected.
So if you attach a garden hose on the supply end and watch the amount coming out of the return end then you may get an indication if the heater is restricted or not.

It isn't clear on the wk shp ml which (AC heater) arrangement is referred to and which one is on a particular vehicle there does seem to be two types DENSO OR M MARELLI it isn't clear if they are the same, different names for the same thing or two distinctly different types.

It does seem that accessing the cab heater from the cab is going to be a big job - take off a lot of plastic and units. I did take off the large plastic cover that goes over the console and extends to the glove box there were only 3 or 4 screws used one of which is well hidden.

The attachment AC htr circuit copy ps sfw is from the wk shp ml. It shows some of the set up for lh drive vehicles.

It seems that attachments of less than 100kb are okay to attach but over that size there is a delay I have known that several minutes go by for attachments of 150kb + and often the attachment is not made. However I can reduce the image size in photoshop but there are losses and increases with each adjustment.
Attached to this post:
Attachments: heater_rtn_ps_sfw.jpg (78.31 KB)
Attachments: Cab_heater_supply_pipe_eng_comp_ps_sfw.jpg (87.07 KB)
Attachments: AC_htr_circuit___Copy_ps_sfw.jpg (64.77 KB)
Edited by ivecofd, Sep 10 2015, 10:42 AM.
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Merlin
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Thanks a lot, Bazil-S and ivecofd for your advice! I will check whether it looks the same, and try to flush the cab heater.
This leads to next question:
How can I check whether wrong coolant has been used?
What coolant should be used?
I called two different Iveco-workshops (the only ones in this part of the country) and got surprising answers:
"Blue one" the first one told me.
"We always use red coolant" I got from the other one.

And...as far as I understand, the colours are not standardised, meaning any colour could be anything, depending on the manufacturer?

Unfortunately (and surpringsingly) none of the workshops were able to come up with some more detailed coolant specification.

Do you KNOW which one it should be, and where to get it?

Thanks a lot!!
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ivecofd
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35C12 2005 MWB DRW 3rd gen’ crew cab tipper F1AE04 85.3 kw 2.3 cc 16v EDC 16.

TRY AND FIND ANTI FREEZE.

Concentrated protective radiator fluid.
Ethylene glycol based containing corrosion inhibitors in conformity with Iveco Standard 18-1830. Paraflu'' (2)
(1) Specific for cold climes. (2) 100% Paraflu to be diluted with water to 50%.

When I go to my shed I'll have a look for the anti freeze that I used.

I don't know how to check which coolant has been used.

If the coolant is wrong then the system shall need to be cleaned/flushed out.
One way is to use fresh water. Drain all out. Put in fresh run engine till hot then let it cool. Drain it and refill with fresh. Do it 3 or 4 times. Don't leave fresh water in the system as corrosion can occur. Using fresh water isn't going to break down clumps of matter you'll need a solvent for that or remove all the pipes and use a pipe brush. It should be possible to remove the heater unit.

When I change my antifreeze I usually drain the system fill up with fresh run the engine and drain and fill up with fresh again doing this 3 or 4 times. On most of the engines I have had the coolant system does not fully drain there's always some antifreeze left in.

The same applies to the engine lubricant. These days an engine lubricant flush is needed to clear out the lubricating system. If the flush is not done then oil that has coagulated can clog up parts of the system.

Try google engine flush - coolant solvent - be careful what you use as modern coolant systems may have alloys/mixed metals in the components.

The image in attachments is for LH DRIVE.
It could be easier to access the heater supply/rtn pipes from inside the cab.
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Attachments: Heat_exchange_location_lhdrive.jpg (39.92 KB)
Edited by ivecofd, Sep 16 2015, 08:20 AM.
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